Last week my article was published on the blogsite Unscientific Malaysia. Here's the link http://unmalaysia.wordpress.com/2010/03/11/my-2-cents-on-fatine-2/comment-page-1/#comments You can find the original article in my blog archive, January 2010
I submitted that blog post to the administrators because the discussions on UnMsia's Facebook page at the time was going a lot into gay/LGBT issues and thought it would be a good idea to share. So imagine my surprise when they responded and decided to publish it. I mean, i am nobody...just another girl with a blog.
When the article came out, i was practically jumping up and down with excitement. I went to check it out for myself & nearly had a heart attack : there was a comment by Marina Mahathir. There it was, one of the earliest comments. I was stunned. Marina Mahathir commented on something I wrote, not the other way around!!! Once the initial shock wore off, i was elated and proceeded to forward the link to my friends, my mother, my sister... At that moment i felt like a kid showing-off her artwork, and was so happy for the support from friends.
That was then.
Obviously i followed my article closely. Now there are many more comments, and a significant proportion of them negative, with non-helpful criticism. Some responded emotionally, convinced i have no idea what i'm talking about, or that i am so far away from actually understanding the issue. The comments on the Facebook page are a lot harsher, some telling me to "shut the fuck up" http://www.facebook.com/notes/unscientific-malaysia/my-2-cents-on-fatine/355903123510 .
Even my comments attempting to clear misunderstandings or misconception regarding statements within the article were met with 'dislikes'. Basically all the bad comments were just one step short of name-calling or branding me a 'disgrace'. They refuse to accept my clarifications of the article, that it wasnt meant to be a scientific/research article thus was written based on observation, brief reading, and knowledge at hand. They dont see the fact that i am not writing as an activist, a sympathiser, an opposer, or as an individual with 'experience' (i.e, a transexual or a family member or someone living with a transexual)...heck they even questioned when i say i'm on the fence.
Seriously. If i had wrote the article as a Professor of Gender Studies or Sociology and had made those errors in my article, then yes, feel free to crucify me, i'd deserve it. Don't punish a 10-year old for not being able to do PMR level quadratics.
The 'up' side to my article was that there were transexual women who read it, and they did not condemn me except for my haphazard teminology. I appreciate them sharing their stories, and they were not like the stereotypes i wrote about. The problem with trying to reach out to the marginalized or 'frowned upon' population is that they get so defensive; i faced similar criticism when i interviewed drug addicts at the Pusat Serenti. They disregard the fact that i had CHOSEN be there & learn about them; instead some condemn me for being skeptical about trusting drug addicts. Instead of showing me why & how they can be trusted, this guy just confronted & lectured me on MY 'sincerity' and motives. Same with these transexual sympathisers (like i said, the trans women were actually receptive) chose to laugh at my 'ignorance', express their appalled-ness over my lack of 'initiative' and 'understanding'.
You know what's sad? my mum & sis haven't even seen my article. never mind reading or commenting, they haven't even looked at it.
Why is my title 'Discouraged'? Well, i've told u about UnMsia's Facebook page. I debate there a lot, and unfortunately i always find myself having to speak about Islam because of the blatant condemnation & apparent misinterpretation by the anti-Islam and left-wing liberatarians. all i do is put out facts that i know. and instead of taking the facts, they question my understanding, my interpretation, my motives, my knowlegde and accuse me of pick-n-choose Islamic teachings as well as manipulating Islam to prove my point. Mind you, i dont even quote the Quran or Hadith and i make it a point never to do so unless talking to other Muslims.
Debating there was my outlet when stressed : it channels my aggression to something more useful; helps take the edge off. Instead of creating drama or picking fights with friends/family, i 'fight' about topics, issues, and causes. Just as what happened with my article, i now spend more time clarifying & justifying the points i put out; with no help from fellow members or friends.
My once source of stress release has turned into my source of stress. I guess it is time stop & move on to something else.
Office Decor Update & Making Slime | Tanya Burr
6 years ago
"I guess it is time stop & move on to something else"
ReplyDeleteDONT
Yours Sincerely,
Megati
First of all, let me quote you from the above:
ReplyDelete''Seriously. If i had wrote the article as a Professor of Gender Studies or Sociology and had made those errors in my article, then yes, feel free to crucify me, i'd deserve it. Don't punish a 10-year old for not being able to do PMR level quadratics.''
The last line is like a punch on your own face! Don't you get it??? Using that as an anecdote, I doubt anybody or any parent would push their 10-year-old children to attempt to do a PMR paper. So, here, i guess ,YOU, as that '10-year-old' or in your real life -someone who has not even completed the whole CHAPTER of what you are studying- should try to deepen and broaden your understanding and knowledge before attempting to put up any so-called opinionated writing, which would only end up embarrassing yourself up to the neck, thus, more vividly showing how shallow your thoughts are and how ignorant you are still.
Look, once you put up something, there are hundreds, if not thousands, of pairs of eyes out there that would be reading! And amongst those, I bet there would be some who really do have much more active neutrons in their brains than yours. So watch out and think deeply before putting out your unneeded and unstudied thoughts or opinions!
But..what can be said...You are just one of the millions of expert-wannabes around who are too eager to 'popularize' your puzzled thoughts.
Learn the lesson, Missy...
m
ReplyDeleteDima
ReplyDelete1. You were in Unscientific Malaysia for a while before you post that piece. You should have known there are many intellects who know much more than you, why do you think you should be exempted from criticisms for your amateurish, biased opinion piece ? You were involved in many debates - you have been told many times you are priviledged no one will confront you directly on Islamic issues because of the stupid draconian Malaysians laws. Why do you think anyone would save any punch when the issue tuched is not Islam-related ?
2. As for the perceived anti-Islam sentiments. You do NOT monopolise facts Dima. Others posters in UM live in the same country with you and read the same religious materials as you. Unless you are a prophet, or a god's messenger, you do NOT speak with any authority. So please be humble and expect to be challenged. Remember, you are priviledged and sheltered by the government who actually arrest people over comments made on Facebook/blog. So the criticisms you received are already significantly toned/watered down. Imagine if you live in a free country with free speech. Do you think you will get away easily as you do in Unscientific Malaysia ?
3. And if they do not question your understanding, your interpretation, your motives, your knowlegde and accuse you of pick-n-choose Islamic teachings as well as manipulating Islam to prove you point, then HOW ELSE could they criticise you ? Should they critise you by praising you ???????
4. And frankly, Unscientific Malaysia do not need your friends/family to help up. The members of Unscientific Malaysia HAVE HAD enough of socially conservative/totalitarian, Islamic/religious/superstitious shit offline in Malaysia. Unscientific Malaysia is supremely rare as a vent hole for liberal, progressive Malaysians (both left winger and right winger). People are risking their career and family by posting liberal, progressive opinions with their trackable real names and profiles. People who are oppressed by your religion in offline life get to speak with less reservation online. Please, I ask you politely, do NOT invite your conservative/religious friends/family to support you in Unscientific Malaysia. They would rather outreasoned, not outnumbered. And if you, a seemingly bright young lady could not outreason the UM bunch, I don't think your friends could.
5. Please do not feel discouraged. And I am not patronising you. Remember, others do not have the obligation to take care of you. They are there not to convert you to "left wing libertarian atheist" or whatever. They are not pendakwah, why should they be specifically nice to you ? There is no racism, no agism, no sexism, no religionism, basically no discrimination in UM. What counts is the validity of your opinion. Not you as a person. Nobody cares if you are young, female, malay or muslim. Your identity means nothing.
I wish you well Dima. With all my sincererity, I hope you remain in UM. Learn from the lessons. Be more open minded. Be more receptive to reasons.
Another thing for you to ponder. UM is equally harsh towards Islam and Christianity. And there are active, devoted Christians there. Why is it always the Muslims only who complain ? Maybe you lot could learn a thing or two from the Christians. Discard you plainly silly siege mentality. Discard your prejudice. Open to critisisms, take them with your chins and hearts. Realise that those criticisms are justified, reasonable criticisms.
I want to see you again in UM, Dima - I do not want to lose you. Being liberal and progressive is a lonley thing in Malaysia. We would rather have you than not.
With many loves, best wishes and regards
Orang Tak Ada Nama
Hey Dima,
ReplyDeleteIn all honesty, I think what the people in UM wrote is true up to a certain extent. Regardless of whether you have the credentials, we are accountable for the things that we write. Your write up do tend to over-generalize things. Hence, rather than being pissed, about them having a different opinion than yours, why not defend your points? It would be a good platform for you to play devil's advocate and learn more stuffs.
However, I do realise the tone that's in Unscientific Malaysia tends to be disrespectful when it come to religion/ belief. And a bit hypocritical too. Here they are, asking you to see from another person's P.O.V (Fatine for example), yet they choose to dismiss ideas that does not agree with their atheistic belief. The moment someone defends a religion, they end up bashing it. That's not so nice.
It's fine if you think that there is no God, but why demean other people's belief system. If they're happy going about with their lives, why do you have to be critical of others? I think UM is a good platform for us to unite,a place to illicit discussions but somewhere along the lines, it is reduced to religion bashing (atleast this is IMHO)
Asking hard question is fine. I find it intellectually stimulating and makes me want to find out whether what I belief in is an absolute truth or not. But please, don't think just because someone decides to belief that there is God, the person is deemed hypocritical and irrational terus.
Orang Takde Nama,
Aren't you generalizing too much when you say Muslims only complain?Why do you have to label people as a group, and not an individual. Yes, these people that whines a lot, might be Muslims, but it is their choice to whine, religion didn't ask them to.
Let's play nice :)
Aduih..
ReplyDeletehaih
dearest most beloved Anonymous 1,
for starters, Dima has the balls to admit she can be quite the retard at times, being like a 10 year old attempting to do PMR qudratics was it? I assume it's maths stuff which i am oh-so-awesome at.
where are your balls(metaphorical ones la) to even admit who you are? hiding behind ambiguity, yea that's the Malysian politics spirit. so maybe you are a true Malaysian... hmmm...
Anywayyy....
ok if what she does is a pathetic attempt of opinionated writing (i am paraphrasing), why did UM accept her article and publish it? i mean is UM trying to "embarass themselves for putting up her shallow thoughts"?
thing is, she's just giving her opinions, just as you are entitled to give yours. that's what freedom of speech is all about. But freedom of speech doesn't warrant anyone to defame of bash anyone.
i do it only cuz u did it! bwek! *sticks tongue out*
So what if some of the stuff she says sounds a little ignorant or poorly evidenced? people learn. she's learning.
i would only agree with the last line of your comment, that is "learn the lesson".
arent we all learning lessons? that's what life is about. you don't give shit to other who are learning various lessons.
Dearest most beloved Orang Tak Ada Nama,
ReplyDeleteMak pak dah bagi nama leklok tanak guna la pulak. Haih. pelik2 betul manusia di dunia ni.
Ape lah, kejap ckap UM tak perlu org mcm Dima. pastu cakap dont be discouraged. I repeat. pelik2 betul manusia di dunia ni.
for you to condemn people who are religious etc, isnt it the same when people condemn the liberals? so that makes you exactly the same doesnt it?
everyone has the right to speak their mind, and just cuz u are against their opinions, doesnt make them wrong. you seem to want to advocate that but then u say stuff like your point no.4.
So which is it?
you wanna be just like every other conservative freakos who want to surpress anything that goes against ideas that are against their ideology, or do wanna be a true liberal and allow healthy debates?
So what is the true definition of conservative? isnt it not being resistant to change? for u to live in a little bubble wanting UM to be for "liberals only", isnt that resisting change?
if you are a true liberal, you embrace others with their beliefs and their opinions, but you stick to your own guns. not condemn the shit outta them in their own blogs without even using your name.
so i guess you are not one of those people who are willing to sacrifice your career etc for all ur beliefs and arguments. I'm just saying.
So maybe after this I may be a target for being ignorant, not serious, lalala?
I don't give a tiny rat's ass. or a huge one for that matter. :)
Naquira :
ReplyDelete1. When have I said that UM doesn't need orang macam Dima ?
2. No difference. Religious people have the right to critisise/condemn liberal people.
3. Point no. 4 is asking Dima to help preserve an online community with certain social slant. It is not a suppression of Dima's freedom of speech and right to her opinion.
4. I suppress freedom of speech ? Eeer, I suggest to you to read and think before you write.
5. I suggest you to do a lot more reading on what constitute "conservative", "liberal" etc.
6. Posting annonymously on the internet. Helloooo, are you new to the internet ??
7. Yes, you are right for once. I have no interest in sacrificing my career etc for silly fights on the internet.
8. Yes, you are indeed ignorant, and unfortunately, seriously ignorant :-) :-P
Good that you don't give a tiny/huge rat's ass. Coz it is plain time wasting (for me) to even comment on others' blogs.
Orang Tak Ada Nama
Imma gonna call myself Nabil now
whoa...pls, dont gaduh2 here.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous 1.
may i first take the liberty to correct you :
" And amongst those, I bet there would be some who really do have much more active neutrons in their brains than yours."
NEUTRONS are subatomic particles. NEURONS are brain cells. i cant discount that as a typo, or just ignorance. and since you are makng that mistake at the blog of a future doctor, i could chose to laugh at you, berate you, or condenm you as u did me. i chose to correct you. i think u r better at me when it comes to bitter & spiteful comments, so i'll use your own words :
"try to deepen and broaden your understanding and knowledge before attempting to put up any so-called opinionated writing...watch out and think deeply before putting out your unneeded and unstudied thoughts or opinions...Learn the lesson, Missy"
writing an opinion = opinionated writing. and in my blog, comments are considered opinionated writing.
Anonymous 2
with regards to your point (2), yes i am well aware that i dont speak with authority. i know that when i put out religious facts, they are subject to question. but at the same time, i feel my hands are tied because if i were to actually quote scripture, it would be subjected to even more ridicule...religious believers accept scripture as authority & can respect each others' Holy Book.
point (3...no i dont expect to be praised. i can accept criticism if they were constructive & with good intention. its fine if they correct me outright, say 'talk to some people' or share their own experience or other references to prove i am wrong, or & that there is so much more out there. i've had the liberty of debating with one such individual at UnMsia, and i thank her for it. had she just say 'ur a deluded idiot', i would not have learnt anything. i thank her for helping me see how/where my premise was flawed.
point (4). look, give me some credit will u? if i were to invite people, i wouldnt invite the "die infidel die" type of people... i hate them too! my friends are similar to me; we discuss issues all the time, we dont condemn other religions/faiths and we certainly dont oppose or agree with things 'just because'. Unless u already see me as ultra-conservative, then i cant help you...perhaps link u to an ultra-conservative-supremacist site? then you can tell the difference between religious+progressive VS religious+tempurung
Alaaa...Naquira..apa la lu..nampak sangat melenting bile adik ko kene jentik sket..Dien sendiri yg cari pasal..Nampak sangat korang ni adik beradik tak bleh terima kritikan! Klu masuk AF gerenti kene tendang sebelum Round 1..huhuhu...
ReplyDeleteSi Dima ni plak sibuk nak betulkan ejaan orang Neutro ke Neuron ke Proton ke...At least org tu salah eja..Yg ko tu pergi melalak tulis entah ape2 benda dr kepala otah serabut ko tu..tak plak nak betulkan sebelum ko pergi malukan diri ko tu hantar tulisan ko yg tak diterima ramai tuh..
Hah ni, kejap lagi, melalak lagi lah adik beradik ni bantai org2 yg komen kat sini...Hah..mai pi ajak mak hang sekali selak kain die bagi teriak kat depa...hahahahaha...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous 4
ReplyDeleteI am so grateful to your objectivity & constructive critism, and i accept your points. I admit, the article posted on Fatine was rather zooming in on stereotypes. About accountability, i agree, which is why i try and clarify the misinterpretations, and apologized for my mistakes. I think defending my article would subject me to more ridicule and be dubbed 'biased' or 'not open-minded'.
also i am glad that you too noticed the disrespectful tone on religions, the dismissive/bashing and the pinch of hyprocrisy. i like hard & stimulating questions to, i find the discussions that follow incredibly liberating and educational. it is difficult to keep it that way when some1 along the lines respond with loud emotions that cloud the facts they bring. its especially hard not to get pissed off when that emotion was directed at you... but we do what we can to stay objective.
Naquira
actually yeah, Orang Takde Nama didnt say anything about not wanting me on UnMsia. but i agree with what you mean about liberals & conservatives. someone once said to me, 'apparently religion is not the only thing being hijacked & misused'.
"where are your balls(metaphorical ones la) to even admit who you are? hiding behind ambiguity, yea that's the Malysian politics spirit. so maybe you are a true Malaysian... hmmm..."
well yeah, i dont see the need to remain anonymous on my blog, esp since nobody in UnMsia is really anonymous anyway. Regardless, i take the comments as they come although its a bit for a hassle to address which 'anonymous' comment specifically. at least Orang Takde Nama was creative., hehe. Thank you for sharing my dislike toward the tone of anonymous 1, and the fact how he/she misses the point as to match the level of criticism toward anything.
Roy
i dont understand your point or your intention, and neither do i find it relevant to the issue. moreover, there is no reason to drag my mother into this...i see no reason for talking about her in such a disrespectful manner. but it is your right of speech.
like i said, it was my mistake for not making any adjustments to the article before sending it out, and i apologized. Marina Mahathir has already pointed out & corrected my mixed-up terminology in her comment. and i've already said i have no access to edit the article at UnMsia, only the admins can. So i dont see the point in dwelling or nitpicking on that issue.
how do u know for sure neutron was a typo or ignorance? i was merely demonstrating helpful ways to critique by correcting as opposed to his/her way of berating, personal attacks, emotional responses, etc.
As for the last anonymous comment, name-calling and profanity is uncalled for. it is rude, immature and disrespectful. if you disagree, dislike or disapprove, then spitting on someone's doorstep is just a reflection of yourself instead of making a difference for the benefit of others.
Dearest Dima,
ReplyDelete1) I do not want to offend you/your sister in any way. (I almost did so before, but when I was told it would upset your sister, I immediately reversed my actions.) I'm sorry if it did any harm.
2) I've always subscribed to the belief that no one has any right to dictate how other people should live their lives unless the other people's lifestyle choices may bring others to harm.
Have you ever thought of embracing this way of life?
3)(we all know "neutron" was a typo. :( please don't let emotions get in the way of common sense)
4) Which brings me to my main argument. How would you feel if people in the US, for example generalized all Muslims to be terrorists. (These are the only Muslims most Americans are exposed to) Is it right for them to perceive all Muslims as dangerous, bad people? (much like you have perceptions of these transsexuals) etc. Which brings me back to point 2. How does the "öutrageous"lifestyle supposedly led by these transsexuals and people who practice premarital sex affect you? At least with the Americans, they can say, the "Muslims" crashed planes into the World Trade Centre, bombed London public transport etc. These transsexuals and people who engage in premarital sex should be free to live how they want right? Imagine if the gov decided to impose a stricter form of Islam. For instance like the Taliban, they decide that women are not to be allowed to work/go outside without being accompanied by a male guardian. How would u like that? hmmm.
Ben